(HT: Anthony Carter).
This is a good start. I love it when one of the pastors says, “I’m Presbyterian by choice and I want to inculcate that into the African-American community.” Amen. This video is very encouraging. Criticisms: well, I hesitate because this is such an important work but I hope the pastors will continue to think about their use of the transformationalist model of social engagement. Is the visible, institutional church called to “transform” the culture around it? Or is it perhaps better to say that we hope and pray that the gospel will have a transforming effect in the life of Christ’s people?
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May 7, 2008 at 3:43 pm
RG Avant
This is one the encouraging developmemts in the PCA. Hopefully it will spread & this movement w/.in the PCA & have influence in other areas of the black church.
However as some in the PCA & OPC define the regulative principle these churches & their worship are in violation of the RP as “they” define it. Their worship may look more like the worship in a black Baptist church than the reverential worship thay say is demanded by the the WCF & the regulative princple.
May 7, 2008 at 5:48 pm
R. Scott Clark
Since the RPW comes to us ultimately from non-Anglo cultures (i.e. the Scriptures, which aren’t Anglo!) I think that worshippers from any culture can adopt and adapt it. I see no reason why African-American congregations cannot follow the RPW and use existing tunes to sing God’s Word in response to God’s Word. Reverence and joy are not antithetical.
The RPW doesn’t mean “stuffy, stiff, and white.”
May 7, 2008 at 7:34 pm
RG Avant
I would agree but I’ve heard a number of proponents who hold to stricter intepretation of the RPW who would say that the RPW means that our worship must be charaterized by a quiet reverence. Many would discourage the use of choirs. (which when u see the video are prominent in many black churches.) Some would critcize the worship styles seen in the video if the churches were predominently white/anglo. (as some who critcize the worship at Christ Community in Nashville, New Life in Philadelphia)
May 8, 2008 at 3:03 am
rjs1
I found the video encouraging and I would just echo what Dr. Clark says; the RPW does not mean, and those who advocate it are not arguing, that the true worship of God is seventeenth century Scottish Presbyterianism, but rather if I were to attend a church in Europe, America, Asia, Africa etc the RPW means that the elements of worship will all be the same. We will all base our prayer upon the Lord’s prayer, Scripture shall be read publicly and preached, psalms shall be sung acappella, and both baptism and the Lord’s supper will be administered. God’s worship now is truly catholic (or should be)!!
May 8, 2008 at 4:13 am
RG Avant
I also agree that the video is encouraging. Its encouraging to see the PCA growing in the black community & hopefully we will see the growth of the reformed church in other ethnic & international communities.
But my point was not that their worship is outside the RPW b/e I believe it s w/in the RPW but that the arguments of some who critcize primarily anglo/white churches (like Christ Community, New Life, perimeter) also apply to some of these predominently black churches.
May 8, 2008 at 4:43 am
Zrim
Call me under-realized, but I am not sure why “transform” is always the go-to word. Whatever happened to “sanctify”? The T-word seems to be the nomenclature of the spirit of the age and a theology of glory, which seems quite taken with power. The S-word is the language of the theology of the Cross, which is the opposite of all that.
We know the world isn’t being “transformed,” but is it really that much better to talk about “transformed” individuals over against “sanctified” ones? Sometimes I think we can tend to respond to institutional transformationalism with experiential forms. The kingdom of God is certainly located within believers, but sanctification is what’s happening, not transformation.
May 8, 2008 at 6:04 am
RubeRad
Some of us even like to think that some amount of transformation is the inevitable result of sanctification…
May 8, 2008 at 6:38 am
Zrim
Rube,
Yes, I am quite aware. But I have always understood that glorification follows sanctification. I’ll pass on the fabricated stop-over between the two, thanks. Somebody just please pass the bread and wine.
May 8, 2008 at 9:44 am
BBywaters
The PCAA. Might there be a new Denomination in the works?
It would be great to see our Reformed churches filled with people of every hue and background worshipping in the same Sanctuary.
I certainly don’t want to feel like I am somehow different than my brother in Christ because of skin color. The World is preoccupied with diversity, skin color, and cultural differences.
We are Christ’s church. We are of a wholly different Kingdom. Our cultural mandate comes from the Word of God, and that Word tells us that all are one in Christ.
I am all for reaching every corner of the globe with the Gospel. We must do it. I do not want to see our Reformed churches divided into separate-but-equal congregations.
May 8, 2008 at 9:54 am
R. Scott Clark
Hi Brian,
Great to hear from you.
Amen!
“Every nation, tongue, and tribe.”
It doesn’t seem as if this group is forming a new denomination, just working within the PCA to reach a group that hasn’t been much exposed to the Reformed faith.
May 8, 2008 at 10:30 am
BBywaters
Hello Scott,
Great to hear from you, as well. I think these men are doing a great work. May God bless their every effort and give them wisdom to negotiate difficult waters.
May 8, 2008 at 11:15 am
PRCalDude
My experience with the PCAs who emphasize “transformationalism” has been less than stellar. I’ll be happy when the idea goes out of fashion.
May 8, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Zrim
Dude,
Try ground-zero in the CRC. I count the T-word used every Lord’s Day, roughly, four times. During the week, fughgitabouit.
May 9, 2008 at 5:26 am
Zrim
At the risk of, well, a few things, I wonder.
How is this appreciably different from meeting the felt needs of consumers? Is it more acceptable because it falls under that more noble purpose of race relations, while meeting the felt needs of consumers is perceived as ignoble? Don’t both efforts really share the same principle that the gospel needs extra special help to reach a certain sub-group “where they’re at”?
It would seem that all the gospel needs is to be purely preached and administered, and then all people will be gathered in from every tribe, tongue and nation. Or is that just naïve?
May 10, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Bob S
“I see no reason why African-American congregations cannot follow the RPW and use existing tunes to sing God’s Word in response to God’s Word. Reverence and joy are not antithetical.”
I see no reason either, but that’s not what I saw/heard in the video.
Of course you can’t ask more of mission/outreaches than you can expect to find in the PCA in general.
May 11, 2008 at 7:35 pm
RG Avant
Be specfic. What do you see wrong in the video & how does it violate the RPW?
May 11, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Bob S
“Be specfic. What do you see wrong in the video & how does it violate the RPW?”
??!!Come on please, this is elementary RG Avant (as in we’ve been through this before at GreenBaggins haven’t we?)
The R&B funk “Come on in” chorus or dancing, choirs, uninspired songs and musical instruments, but that’s about all I could stomach to watch. I am happy to see reformed theology prosper, but that doesn’t mean anything goes because of residual liberal white guilt/patronization.
In other words I’m with Zrim. Along with reformed theology, somebody sold the brothers the latest hip fad of transformational contextualization missiologizing garbage from the PCA MTW and that is sad.
But hey, I’m an equal opportunity bigot. I’m against the MArs Hill/Christ the King/Calvary Chapel rock and roll CCM too, so don’t bother getting the tarbrush out.
For that matter, Girardeau, who wrote the Southern Presbyterian classic on musical instruments available here online:
http://www.covenanter.org/Girardeau/Instrumental/instrumentalmusic.htm
also had a tremendous outreach to the Charleston blacks: http://www.gpts.edu/resources/girardeau.html
so it’s not like the RPW itself or the application of it re. musical instruments is an inherently racist doctrine.
cordially
May 12, 2008 at 6:19 am
RG Avant
I wouldn’t call it contextualized R&B funk but rather worship that reflects historic African american worship. Worship which as far as I can tell you are saying vilates the RPW.
I don’t believe that the RPW is inherently racist but where you drw the lines may make it difficult to plant multiracial churches. You appear to have drawn the line at exclusive psalmody & a ban on musical instruments.
I believe in the RPW but I don’t believe that it excludes historic black worship styles.
May 12, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Bob S
Let me repeat myself, RG.
1. The good and necessary consequences of the Second Commandment, i.e. the RPW, forbids dancing, choirs, uninspired songs and musical instruments.
2. Your quarrel is not with me, but with historic P&R worship as confessed in the Westminster Standards/Directory for Public Worship.
3. That rules out a lot of what passes for worship in American churches, even P&R ones whether they are white, black or purple with green polka dots. (Ever heard of Contemporary Christian Music? Ever been to karaoke warmup service at a CrRefChurch?)
4. God doesn’t love everybody and it ain’t OK to do whatever in worship just because we are sincere and black/fill in the blank. (The pope’s sincere, but the mass is still an accursed idolatry.)
Why not? Because worship and church government like doctrine, are not areas of adiaphora/indifference for the P&R, though they are for Lutherans and Anglicans.
May 13, 2008 at 3:20 am
RG Avant
Like I said you’ve chosen to draw a line around worship that is far stricter than most of the reformed world even those who would consider themselves TR.
Your issue is not just w/historic African AMerican worship (which for the most part is well w/in the RPW) but w/most of the worship found in almost all conservative Presbyterian & Reformed churches except for the RPCNA.
May 13, 2008 at 3:23 am
RG Avant
“the RPW, forbids dancing, choirs, uninspired songs and musical instruments …. That rules out a lot of what passes for worship in American churches, even P&R ones”
That rules out 99.99% of all worship in almost any church anywhere except for a small group of P&R churches.
May 13, 2008 at 5:56 am
Zrim
Bob has nailed something I think important, the deeply-seated phenomenon of white guilt. It really does a number on even Reformed confessionalists.
He made reference to the CRC. Being at ground-zero affords the opportunity to see this quite a bit. When it comes to being politically correct the CRC (and just for clarification, the PC of the porgresive type, not so much the fundie, cultural rightist type) is probably one of the best. The bending-over-backwards patronization to prove to any non-WASP that we really aren’t racist becomes quite transparent and not a little embarassing. As someone in the 18-36 demographic, I have found that it usually heavy amongst those in older age brackets who tote their token minorities to church every other Sunday and try awkwardly to assimilate their music, etc. into worship to prove to everyone, including themselves, they are better at hiding their innate racism than others; perhaps being closer to the living memory of something like the civil rights movement makes “older” folks feel more guilty?
What we see in this video is the PCA version of full-blown progressive PC’ism. The efforts in the CRC are to employ worldly ways (read: inclusivism, affirmative action) to gain diversity for its own sake. This is simply no different from employing worldly ways (read: church growth) to gain numbers for its own sake. Again, white guilt is one potent little pill.
May 13, 2008 at 3:44 pm
RG Avant
First there are aspects in our reformed heritage(I’m not talking abt the CRC since I know little of its history) esp in the heritage of the PCUS & the PCA that has been rascist. Its kinda hypocrytical to critcize the black church for not being reformed when we wern’t willing to admit them to our seminaries(I’m speaking primarily of the PCUS churches b/f the 60s) & supported the worst kind of Jim Crow segregation by appealing to the sprituality of the church.
I don’t though see any of this as PC progressiveism or tokenism but the gospel reconciling sinners w/God & with each other. Those who were previously enemies are now brothers. The planting of Reformed black churches is a testimony of the power of the gospel not the power of PC. The encouragement of this video is not that it proves the PCA is not racist but that the heritage of the PCA was influenced by racism & the gospel has changed hearts.
The biggest problem w/church planting in the PCA is not that the PCA is directing all its efforts to accomaodate itself to every minority in the USA but that 95-98% of its church planting efforts is directed towrds middle & upper class whites. (or the planting of churches in middle & upper class areas).
How in the world you can call the church planting of a small group of primarily black churches affirmative action is puzzling. Are you saying black pastors in the PCA get an easier presbytery exam? Are you accusing the PCA of overlooking theological errors in the desire to have some black churches?
This is not a new thing. There have been churches in the PCA with African AMerican style worship since New City Fellowship started in Chattanoga in the early 80s(or late 70s?). You can call it PC progressivism if you want but for some of us southern white guys who have even a little memory of past racial conflicts we recognize it as the “transforming” power of the gospel.
May 13, 2008 at 3:57 pm
RG Avant
Actually I believe that the RPW provides freedom & flexability in worship.
I can let the Bible be the guide.
I don’t have to have the worship in Latin. I don’t have to worship according to some set man made standard in some prayer book.
I can use different musciscal instruments & different muscial styles b/e its biblical. (harps, lyres, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets. )
May 13, 2008 at 6:42 pm
R. Scott Clark
RGA,
The RPW is not “man-made.” It’s the law of God. It’s the second commandment. That wasn’t “man-made.”
The point of the RPW is to keep people from imposing their opinions or preferences on other people. There is freedom as to circumstances to be sure but elements are sacred. If singing is prayer and if instruments are typological, then no consistory is free to re-instate Mosaic, typological worship in the era of fulfillment. Have you been reading the posts on the RPW?
What about HC 96 or WCF 21 or the Directory for Public Worship (which was, in effect, the original interpretation of WCF 21) makes you think that “freedom” functions as you claim? Am I free to slaughter animals during worship? If not, why not?
May 13, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Bob S
“Your issue is not just w/historic African AMerican worship (which for the most part is well w/in the RPW) but w/most of the worship found in almost all conservative Presbyterian & Reformed churches except for the RPCNA.”
Whew, a sigh of relief here. For a minute, RG, I thought you might be a racist when it came to “historic” AA worship. Racism as in favorably prejudiced as opposed to the more common negatively prejudiced. (Yes, racism is to be deplored and repudiated, but you know what. I have met a few racists in my day and they weren’t all lily white.)
I was going to recommend you read something like Tom Wolfe’s MauMauing the FlakCatchers (?) which he wrote about the white liberals love affair with the Black Panthers in the ’60’s. As in the fascination with the noble savage, the real, the authentic, the hip, the different, the folksy, but you had to go and steal my thunder. Like I am totally bummed out, man.
“That rules out 99.99% of all worship in almost any church anywhere except for a small group of P&R churches.”
Bingo, now it’s finally starting to click. The RPCNA and a few others by default still hold to the confessional P&R position, which was the norm even for non P&R churches at the Reformation. Most modern American moderate P&R churches have left it and now cannot even recognize it when it is called to their attention. That’s because when everybody sacrifices in the high places, even including the orthodox TRs, it becomes the norm and nobody thinks anything about it, except about how weird those fools/heretics/antiquarians/idealists (tongue in cheek translation: idiots/trolls) are who object. And yup, we is one of ‘em.
Or if you will, as RPaul puts it, truth is treason in the empire of lies.
But the reformed confessions still teach we are to worship God alone in the First Commandment, only in the way he has explicitly or implicitly commanded in the Second, from the heart and without hypocrisy or vanity in the Third on the first day of the week in the Fourth.
It is not about the historic worship of whomever, whether the Muggles or the Hogswarts or even about what day the Grinch stole Christmas.
cordially
May 14, 2008 at 6:02 am
RG Avant
Dr Clark I didn’t say the RPW was man made. I believe it. But I don’t believe that the RPW forbids musical elements nor do I believe that it restricts us to only sing the Pslams. We don’t sacrifice animals b/e we got Jesus who already sacrificed for us.
I didn’t look at yr other post until recently; my point was that the RPW is not man made & when we let Scripture be the guide that this gives some freedom as oppossed to having the goverment or bishop impose a prayer book & say worship this way.
May 14, 2008 at 6:11 am
Zrim
“The encouragement of this video is not that it proves the PCA is not racist but that the heritage of the PCA was influenced by racism & the gospel has changed hearts.”
That’s a bit too optimistic for this Calvinist. “Proves” is a strong word.
Some sinners–and their denominations–are simply better than others at either hiding or managing their racism. I know transformationalism bids us that way, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves; try to remember that the business of *sanctification* leaves us yet at once sinners and saints. I realize it’s really tempting to mistake the embracing of progressive cultural mores for an accelerated sanctification (read: transformationalism), but the gospel you attribute such sunniness to tells me we have a lot longer to go.
May 14, 2008 at 1:28 pm
RG Avant
I think ya’ll are assuming too many things. One I think you are assuming that I am some white guy willing to compromise b/e his gt gt grandfather once owned slaves. You make the similar assumptions abt the PCA by making comments without giving specfic examples.(like “garbage from the PCA MTW”
Another thing is I think you are reading way too much into the video just b/e they use the word transform a few times. Personally I don’t have a problem w/the word tansform. Its not antitheical to santification but rather seems to be a good description of a new believer (from death to life) and the beginning of santification.
When I used the word proves I wasn’t trying to put the PCA in a rosy light. I was saying that the roots of the PCA have been racist & that they are still struggling w/it & the fruits of a racist past. The video is encouraging b/e it shows a change in some hearts to be a church that welcomes all. If anything I don’t see the PCA as triumphant over it’s rascist past but bound by the cultural mores that push it to plant churches in middle & upper class areas & ignore minority & blue collar areas. At least in the South the PCA is the country club church.
As far as the worship styles these are worship styles that have been in the PCA almost from the beginning of the denomination(PCA started in 73 & New City Fellowship started less than 10 years later.)You may believe that historic black church worship is outside the RPW, (aside from the exclusive psalmody issue which is a seperate issue) but I see this as weel w/in the RPW.
May 14, 2008 at 1:30 pm
RG Avant
I will agree w/one thing reg exclusive psalmody. I agree w/most of you here that the WCF calls for exclusvie psalm singing. Thats why I take an exception.
May 14, 2008 at 1:33 pm
RG Avant
I will agree w/one thing reg exclusive psalmody. I agree w/most of you here that the WCF calls for exclusvie psalm singing. Thats why I take an exception.
sic: that should be well w/in the RPW.
May 14, 2008 at 6:14 pm
R. Scott Clark
RGA,
I appreciate your honesty. I agree w/ you re the history of the PCA.
I believe that there have been acapella, psalm-singing black churches. When Presbyterians chased African-Americans into Baptist and Methodist churches that probably didn’t help preserve the culture of acapella psalm/Scripture singing in African-American congregations. I have, however, seen an argument that the call and response structure to African-American worship is derived from the old practice of lining out a psalm.
May 14, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Bob S
I am sorry RG, I’d let this thread go, but you keep saying that historic black worship is well within the RPW parameters and we never got that nailed down.
It’s not. Neither is what passes for worship in most P&R churches, but what else is new? So here goes nothing.
Dance- yes, I know David danced before the Lord but was it in worship? No. Soultrain, the American Bandstand or doing the hokey pokey has nothing to do with being edified by the reading, preaching of the Scripture, singing or praying in the worship of God.
Choirs - While there were levitical choirs in the temple 1&2 Chronicles, in the NT, with the priesthood of the believer and the abolishment of the ceremonial worship in Christ, the congregation is the choir. (There are no soloists either, whether we are talking about Mahalia Jackson, Johnny Cash or Amy Grant.)
Uninspired Songs - God gave us an inspired book of songs in which we are repeatedly exhorted to sing psalms unto the Lord. It should be self explanatory. (The ‘new songs’ refer to singing with a renewed heart/mind.) To bring in uninspired songs is to degrade the inspired songs and upgrade the uninspired, which is exactly how people treat hymns. They are “sacred” while psalmsinging is legalistic and constraining.
Musical Instruments - Only brought into the temple worship by the direct command of God to David to accompany the animal sacrifices which typify Christ at Calvary 1&2 Chronicles. They were played by the Levites who were without work now that the tabernacle was replaced by the temple and the ark was no longer carried about.
In other words, your list of exceptions pretty much excludes the historic reformed confessional position. (Holydays haven’t come up yet and I am not talking about MLK’s birthday which is a civil celebration.)
You are of course, entitled to your opinion, but
1. that doesn’t make it confessional.
2. Like it or not, the RPW/confession is colorblind. Whether or not the PCA is or is not or even once was racist has nothing to do with it.
We all want to see the reformed faith and worship spread, but funk, soul, “gospel”, C&W, punk or rock aren’t part of it. That’s the point.
cordially
May 15, 2008 at 4:17 am
RG Avant
First I don’t think you really understand black gospel or black worship. It is not funk or rap or R&B. As the gospel spreads into different cultures the worship experienced will change sometimes subtle sometimes greater. To expect a group of Christians in India or Africa to worship just like you do w/a 18th century Genevan Psalter is not just unrealistic its an understanding of the RPW that hampers the gospel.
As far as the issue of exclusive Psalmody & non instrumental worship others have arugued that but I don’t think that was the point of the post or my original comment. Most of the Reformed world disagrees w/yr view (but that dosen’t make it wrong/right) but is becoming a settled point for many of us.
But if you’re going to split the church its as good a reason as any.
May 15, 2008 at 6:21 am
R. Scott Clark
RG,
Are you saying that the churches are beyond reform on the RPW? Semper reformanda is out of the question? Sola scriptura doesn’t apply to worship?
May 15, 2008 at 6:43 am
RG Avant
Not at all. What I’m saying is that we are going back & forth on this issue & don’t see very many people changing their positions. While that might change 50-100 years from now I don’t see it changing much in the next 10 or even 25. In other words I don’t see the PCA or even the OPC become an exclusive Psalm singing body anytime soon. Nor do I believe the RPCNA is about to change their position soon. Thats what I menat by settled.
Personally I don’t see this as an issue that should divide the church but folks have divided the church for far less.
May 15, 2008 at 7:41 am
R. Scott Clark
RG,
I don’t know the future or the providence of God. My vocation as a minister is to call the church to fidelity to the Word as confessed by the Reformed churches. Until quite recently we confessed a certain understanding of the RPW.
It’s time for us to “get serious” again about the RPW. We’ve had our fling with quasi-Pentecostal, quasi-Anglican, quasi-Methodist, quasi- (and not so quasi-) revivalist worship. It happens. I’m sure that folk never thought that anyone would challenge the absolute dominance of the medieval understanding of the mass.
Twenty-five years ago virtually no one was talking about “law and gospel.” When I became Reformed, no one was talking about two kingdoms or about “archetypal” (as God knows things) and “ectypal” (as we know things) theology. Twenty-five years ago few were talking about or practicing weekly communion. Until about 10 years ago I had never seen a minister pronounce an absolution/declaration of pardon. Now these things are becoming commonplace in Reformed churches.
If we can recover all these lost categories, we can recover the RPW. I agree with your implication that, if it’s going to happen, it’s going to take a long time. Theology is one thing but liturgy is something else.
It took me about 15 years to get where I am. I’m willing to give others the same amount of time. Things have changed, however. 15 years ago there was no such thing (for most of us anyway) as the internet. I knew few people who could explain the RPW properly and could find few resources on subject. 18 years ago I was still trying to modify church growth nonsense. Now I think we all see the futility and foolishness of the church growth pragmatism. I think an entire generation is turning its collective back on the self-indulgence and Narcissism of baby-boomer “worship music.” I know of at least one multi-ethnic Reformed congregation in the LA metro that is following the RPW with converts from every strata of society and they love it.
All these things encourage me to think that it’s really possible. It might not happen soon but it can happen.
May 15, 2008 at 8:49 am
RG Avant
Thats pretty much what I meant. But I would differ in the since that we’ve lost it. unless you say that exclusive psalmody & a ban on musical instruments are essential elements for the RPW.
As I said I don’t think this should be a cause of division. John Murray didn’t see it that way. He stayed most of his life in the OPC.
May 15, 2008 at 8:50 am
RG Avant
I should have said: I differ over yr opinion that we(Reformed believers) have lost the RPW.